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Anchor choice

Mark D
When I sold my Memory 19, the anchor, a Danforth stowed under the floorboards, went with it. It worked well but is not the easiest permanent shape to stow on my wood Swallow Bayraider 20.

I now need to choose an anchor and I am considering all options. I have found the collapsable grapnell that came with it basically useless except on a rock bottom, and I still don't trust it.  As far as I am concerned it is only good for setting on a beach.

Of the choices available, I am looking for one that works in all bottoms, has or folds to the fewest protruding bits to poke through the plywood of the boat in rough weather, and is light (though I know that is logically the opposite of what is required for good holding but I carry a good length of chain).

Has anyone tried this?

https://www.force4.co.uk/manson-racer-anchor-m.html?sqr=fisherman%20anchor&
or this
https://www.force4.co.uk/plastimo-britany-anchor-8kg-m.html?sqr=anchor&

Everyone has a favorite. What's yours and why?
Mark
"Pippin"
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Re: Anchor choice

John Lidstone 1503
Hi Mark, not answering the question you asked but.... my view is if you want to avoid too much weight, ditch the "good length of chain". You only need 2m maximum to avoid chafe of your warp on the bottom and the weight would be far better "spent" on the actual anchor in order to get penetration of difficult bottoms.
In the past I have argued in favour of heavy chain in order to keep the pull horizontal but in practice, unless you use all chain or a massive amount, any significant force will pull the chain nearly straight anyway. Nylon warp at 5 x depth will provide the necessary shock absorption and angle of pull.
Regards
John
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Re: Anchor choice

John Perry 710
In reply to this post by Mark D

Hi Mark, always happy to chat about anchors, a favourite DCA topic!

Both the anchors you provide links for seem to me to be variations on the Danforth concept so I guess that they may both be subject to a design flaw in that a lump of mud, a rock or some debris on the seabed could get between the shank and the flukes.  The anchor will then continue to hold until the tide turns, but as the tide turns the anchor may flip over with the flukes now jammed pointing up away from the seabed so that they cannont dig in.  I recall a good many years ago this happening to a Wayfarer dinghy that was anchored in Bradwell creek in essex.  With the anchor dragging the tide carried the boat right out of the creek and when a launch from the sailing school went to recover the boat it became clear that the pivoting action of the anchor flukes had been jammed with a clod of sticky mud.

On our 15 foot dinghy we have for the past 40 years used a folding grapnel anchor and a copy of a CQR anchor, both about 10lbs weight with rope warps, no chain.  I dont think these are the best anchors in terms of holding ability but they fit neatly in a compact 'tray' I made to stow them in the boat and that is worth quite a lot to us since we dont have much room in the boat.  I am reasonably confident that they will hold if used with adequate scope on good holding ground, espeicially if both anchors are used together, however they have certainly dragged when the seabed has been less suitable.  The CQR style one did once drag on what looked like reasonable holding ground and the boat ended up over a flooded public road with the tide going down!  The story about that embarrassing incident is in a DCA magazine rally report which won the editors prize for best rally report, I think in 2017. I find that the  folding grapnell anchor is generally superior to the equal weight CQR type and it is very compact when stowed so I dont think it is such a bad anchor as some people say, I wonder if it is just the very small grapnells that people find unreliable.

As it happens I have recently been looking into anchors for a boat much larger than a dinghy and from various writings and videos on the internet it would seem that the aluminium 'Spade' anchor would be a good choice if you are looking for the best anchor regardless of cost.  Although the Spade anchor is aluminium and light in weight for its overall size the weight that is actually applied to the tip of the fluke, which may well be what matters, is higher than for a steel anchor since there is a lump of lead in the pointed fluke.  I think Spade anchors are mostly used on larger boats but they are available down to 2.5kg,  The 2.5 kg aluminum Spade is £442 and the 4.5kg model, which might well be just right for a larger cruising dinghy, is £614  from Jimmy Green chandlery

https://jimmygreen.com/anchors/38027-spade-anchor#/4568-finish-aluminium/6008-anchor_size-4_5kg


On 01/02/2019 16:26, Mark D [via DCA Forum] wrote:
When I sold my Memory 19, the anchor, a Danforth stowed under the floorboards, went with it. It worked well but is not the easiest permanent shape to stow on my wood Swallow Bayraider 20.

I now need to choose an anchor and I am considering all options. I have found the collapsable grapnell that came with it basically useless except on a rock bottom, and I still don't trust it.  As far as I am concerned it is only good for setting on a beach.

Of the choices available, I am looking for one that works in all bottoms, has or folds to the fewest protruding bits to poke through the plywood of the boat in rough weather, and is light (though I know that is logically the opposite of what is required for good holding but I carry a good length of chain).

Has anyone tried this?

https://www.force4.co.uk/manson-racer-anchor-m.html?sqr=fisherman%20anchor&
or this
https://www.force4.co.uk/plastimo-britany-anchor-8kg-m.html?sqr=anchor&

Everyone has a favorite. What's yours and why?
Mark
"Pippin"



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Re: Anchor choice

Mark D
John, thanks for the considered reply.

I am considering the collapsible Mantus anchors as I would only use it when the grapnel is inadequate. Has anyone tried these?
https://www.mantusmarine.com/product/2-5-lbs-lbs-stainless-steel-mantus-dinghy-anchor/
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Re: Anchor choice

Frank Raisin 2892
In reply to this post by John Lidstone 1503
I don't know what has gone wrong with the CQR type - but they seem to be consistently the most reliably unreliable anchor you can get .  I suspect they have been copied and re copied so many times that some crucial subtle fundamental property of the design has been lost.
I have gone back to using the fisherman type - it doesn't work very well - but at least it always works ........
I do have hopes for the Rockna type
Regards ,
Frank
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Re: Anchor choice

Stephen Davies 3471
I have just invested in a small, (2.5KG), Danforth, as I had worries of my fisherman holding in deep water over hard sand.

I wonder if the answer for this particular requirement is just, any old anchor with a ton of chain?

Stephen.
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Re: Anchor choice

Roger Barnes 936
I have never had any trouble with my 10lb Sou’wester CQR copy, with 5 metres of chain. I tend to use the fisherman as a bower for preference simply because it is more comfortable to handle.

Sent from my iPad

On 6 Jun 2019, at 10:23, Stephen Davies 3471 [via DCA Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

I have just invested in a small, (2.5KG), Danforth, as I had worries of my fisherman holding in deep water over hard sand.

I wonder if the answer for this particular requirement is just, any old anchor with a ton of chain?

Stephen.


If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
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Roger Barnes
President
Dinghy Cruising Association

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Re: Anchor choice

Alastair Law 2624
In reply to this post by Frank Raisin 2892
On 5 Jun 2019 at 23:21, Frank Raisin 2892 [via DCA Forum] wrote:

>
>
> I don't know what has gone wrong with the CQR type - but they seem to
> be consistently the most reliably unreliable anchor you can get .

I have a suspicion that the geometry of many of these designs is
quite critical and that copies may just not be quite right.

Anchors with hinges are subject to wear which can change the
geometry.

I managed to convert an old worn grapnel, which was completely
useless, to an acceptable lunch hook by limiting the angle that the
flukes could open to.

--
Sail when you can, row when you must, motor only
when you have to be at work in the morning.

Alastair Law
Yeovil, England.
<http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>


--
Sail when you can, row when you must, motor only
when you have to be at work in the morning.

Alastair Law
Yeovil, England.
<http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>
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Re: Anchor choice

Paul Hadley 2898
In reply to this post by John Lidstone 1503
I agree with John about the length of chain. I reduced mine to about 2 meters for easier and quieter handling through a bow roller on my pocket cruiser. I use a 5kg Bruce.

Scope is important - I got caught out at Cobnor with a combination of short scope (to avoid bumping other boats), springs high tide and very strong gusts at 2am.

One great tip is colour coded cable ties in the anchor warp. I have them every 5m - yellow for 5m, red for 10m, yellow and red for 15m two reds at 20m etc. The cable ties help ensure adequate scope. Leave them uncut, to avoid sharp edges; the tails sticking out are visible from a distance.

Paul
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Re: Anchor choice

John Lidstone 1503
In reply to this post by Mark D
Mark, I too have pondered on the Mantus anchor. These and the similar Spade / Rocna types are the latest development which always seem to do well in quantified and controlled tests.
The thing I like about Mantus is that they put the sharpened chamfer on the top of the blade to encourage it to dig in, which it does dramatically in their test videos. The Spade and Rocna put their chamfer on the bottom of the blade, quoting cutting tool technology as a reason - but cutting tools are designed specifically to not dig in and to merely shave off a controlled layer of material - the opposite of what we want an anchor to do!
In my view, a robust digging-in action is the most important criteria for dinghy cruiser's comparatively light weight anchors.
My own anchor is a 6kg Delta which I have found reliable but if I ever lose it I think my next one might be a Mantus.

John L
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Re: Anchor choice

Frank Raisin 2892
got me thinking, John......

seems that , to dig in promptly, the anchor when dropped on the bottom, should present a point ready to pierce, and have significant weight onto it.  A sharp point is surely going to be more effective than any edge*  scraping along the surface (or weed mat).

perhaps that is why the fisherman is so good at grabbing - pointed tip, angled to dig, weight behind it....
and poor at holding for lack of blade area......

Laying the anchor on its side, on the floor, might show up its good and bad points ()

frank

*whichever way it is sharpened - though plane blades are effective both bevel up and bevel down  - but only work in their respective planes.....

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Re: Anchor choice

John Lidstone 1503
I agree, Frank.
To continue chewing the cud..... Yes, a pointed fluke will always be more effective than a blade edge at starting the dig. Are you thinking of the rounded spade of the Bruce type? - of course they also have the two pointed flukes which, despite being slightly rounded by the galvanising, when you lay the Bruce on it's side, have a great proportion of their weight on them to penetrate the bottom. But the sharp points of the Spade, Rocna and Mantus are created by having the thickness of the material chamfer bottom, bottom and top respectively.
My reasoning for the superb digging ability of the Mantus is that that a bottom chamfer (Spade and Rocna) will tend to steer the burying blade upwards again whereas a top chamfer (Mantus) would steer it in a sharper burying dive (Other geometry and factors being equal). Though, I'm sure it's much more complicated than this and all three seem to be better overall than any older designs.
My own Lewmar Delta doesn't have a particularly large proportion of weight on it's galvanised pointed tip when laid down but seems to have an otherwise reasonable reputation anyway. My decision to buy it was that it seemed the best compromise of reputation, weight and cost that would fit though my rather small deck hatch!
John