Boat tents

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Boat tents

Gerald Turner 2924
 Currently in throes of making a tent, but I am in a quandary on what to use, l like the feel of traditional cotton duck/ twill ,this would need treating with dope, not a problem with Fabsil.
I could use a more techie fabric ,like a coated PU , or acrylic ,but that doesn't have the soft feel or drapabilty of cotton, I want the ease of rolling the tent back to gain entry, something not able to do with a stiffer fabric.
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Re: Boat tents

Elizabeth Baker
Hello Gerald,
My preference is for cotton duck, because condensation is less of a problem with this than with the man-made fabrics. Also, with a coated fabric, the coating will peel off after a few years and it will have to be replaced. My own tent is cotton/terylene mixture and has lasted over 40 years on two seperate boats, and is still going strong. I reproof it every two or three years. My suggestion is to make a first tent out of cheap material such as Polytarp and experiment with this for a night or three. Once you are happy with it, you can use it for a pattern for the good tent and avoid wasting expensive material by getting it wrong.
Liz
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2019 7:46 PM
Subject: Boat tents

 Currently in throes of making a tent, but I am in a quandary on what to use, l like the feel of traditional cotton duck/ twill ,this would need treating with dope, not a problem with Fabsil.
I could use a more techie fabric ,like a coated PU , or acrylic ,but that doesn't have the soft feel or drapabilty of cotton, I want the ease of rolling the tent back to gain entry, something not able to do with a stiffer fabric.


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Re: Boat tents

Gerald Turner 2924
Thanks Liz,
I have made a polytarp tent ,and resorted to it when on the Charente-Maritime DCA rally,, when my land tent failed,  I will use this as my Patten.
You are right about the PU coated fabric ,I have some bike bags that are delaminating , but I was wondering if there was an inexpensive  proofed fabric that doesn't delaminate.

In many ways ,I think polytarp  a good choice,regards to packing away  a wet tent, but it rustles in the wind, condensation problems, and diffulcuty in making strong seams for flaps and joins, this tent I am making should last a while
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Re: Boat tents

Roger Barnes 936
In reply to this post by Gerald Turner 2924
When you’ve got a solution, let me know. I am having the same internal discussion!

But incidentally new cotton does not need proofing. Only when it gets old…

Roger



On 11 Feb 2019, at 19:46, Gerald Turner 2924 [via DCA Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

 Currently in throes of making a tent, but I am in a quandary on what to use, l like the feel of traditional cotton duck/ twill ,this would need treating with dope, not a problem with Fabsil.
I could use a more techie fabric ,like a coated PU , or acrylic ,but that doesn't have the soft feel or drapabilty of cotton, I want the ease of rolling the tent back to gain entry, something not able to do with a stiffer fabric.


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Re: Boat tents

John Lidstone 1503
In reply to this post by Gerald Turner 2924
Hi Gerald,
It is a tricky one which I expect is why fabric manufacturers are still trying to perfect their products and why the best can be so expensive. Of course there is a ready market of rich yacht owners looking for the very best materials so high prices can be demanded.
However, these people may be looking for fabrics that don't shrink so that they can be assembled onto fixed tubular framework. The manmade fabric that results then has to have a high UV resistance so it can be left erected on a mooring (probably in the Med). The fabrics have to be available in a wide range of colours for the discerning customer.
If you have an over-boom tent in mind, can cope with a limited colour choice, can carry the weight and don't mind reproofing occasionally, why not go for cotton canvas? There are plenty of very happy dinghy cruisers with this arrangement.
Acrylic canvas is often sold as an alternative for yacht stuff but I'm not sure how water proof it is for use as a tent. I have certainly seen rain peeing straight through acrylic canvas biminis on yachts. You are already rightly avoiding the coated PU.
Have you searched this forum using the term "tent" ? There's lots of discussion.
For my own tent on an aluminium frame, I used Marchem Top Notch 9 which isn't cheap but is fairly soft, light and fairly waterproof.
John
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Re: Boat tents

Gerald Turner 2924
I am gravitating towards a cotton duck/ twill, , because it might be easier to machine, seeing as I am doing the sewing, ventile might have been an option, but I am on a budget, at least £30 a linear mtr for Ventile.
Surely Roger,as a learned man, able to specify materials for your building's , I thought you might have a more  certain ideas as to which is best.
Wattle and daub with a lime render, or West country cob?
Make for an interesting experience to pack away wouldn't it😉
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Re: Boat tents

Gerald Turner 2924
Further thoughts, the Canvas options were all that was available before these modern fabrics come along, it worked for our forebears, and they had more need for a reliable fabric than we do today.

I am minded towards cotton duck and dope!
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RE: Boat tents

Bob Tarn 2572
In reply to this post by Gerald Turner 2924

Hi Gerald

I find Ventile Cotton very useful. It is very light weight, rolls back and folds easily and packs away into a much smaller bundle than other fabrics. I bought my tent third hand but knew the previous owners including the maker. It is at least 20 years old, has been used on 4 different boats and has not needed reproofing.

Hope this helps

Bob

 

From: Gerald Turner 2924 [via DCA Forum] [mailto:ml+[hidden email]]
Sent: 11 February 2019 19:46
To: Robert Tarn <[hidden email]>
Subject: Boat tents

 

 Currently in throes of making a tent, but I am in a quandary on what to use, l like the feel of traditional cotton duck/ twill ,this would need treating with dope, not a problem with Fabsil.
I could use a more techie fabric ,like a coated PU , or acrylic ,but that doesn't have the soft feel or drapabilty of cotton, I want the ease of rolling the tent back to gain entry, something not able to do with a stiffer fabric.


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Re: Boat tents

Roger Barnes 936
Im very tempted by Ventile despite the cost!

On 12 Feb 2019, at 16:05, Bob Tarn 2572 [via DCA Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Gerald

I find Ventile Cotton very useful. It is very light weight, rolls back and folds easily and packs away into a much smaller bundle than other fabrics. I bought my tent third hand but knew the previous owners including the maker. It is at least 20 years old, has been used on 4 different boats and has not needed reproofing.

Hope this helps

Bob

 

From: Gerald Turner 2924 [via DCA Forum] [mailto:ml+<a href="x-msg://29/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=1573&amp;i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external" class="">[hidden email]]
Sent: 11 February 2019 19:46
To: Robert Tarn <<a href="x-msg://29/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=1573&amp;i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external" class="">[hidden email]>
Subject: Boat tents

 

 Currently in throes of making a tent, but I am in a quandary on what to use, l like the feel of traditional cotton duck/ twill ,this would need treating with dope, not a problem with Fabsil.
I could use a more techie fabric ,like a coated PU , or acrylic ,but that doesn't have the soft feel or drapabilty of cotton, I want the ease of rolling the tent back to gain entry, something not able to do with a stiffer fabric.


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Roger Barnes
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Re: Boat tents

John Lidstone 1503
Cost from Point North Profabric, corrected for roll width and including VAT as follows

16 oz Cotton Duck  575 g/sqm   £9.25/sqm
Top Notch 9           305 g/sqm   £12.63/sqm
Ventile 24              200 g/sqm   £21.60/sqm

Cost for, say, a 14 sqm tent including £50 for extra components £180, £230, £350.
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Re: Boat tents

Graham Neil 2971

So, for £170 extra the Ventile is one third of the weight, which seems a pretty fair trade off to me. Presumably it is a bit less bulky as well?


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---- John Lidstone 1503 [via DCA Forum] wrote ----

Cost from Point North Profabric, corrected for roll width and including VAT as follows

16 oz Cotton Duck  575 g/sqm   £9.25/sqm
Top Notch 9           305 g/sqm   £12.63/sqm
Ventile 24              200 g/sqm   £21.60/sqm

Cost for, say, a 14 sqm tent including £50 for extra components £180, £230, £350.


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Re: Boat tents

John Lidstone 1503
It would seem so, Graham. It's probably personal choice whether it's worth the extra for you.
Now, I don't know anything about Ventile. Point North are selling Ventile 24 for making clothing. I have now found, elsewhere, that there is also Ventile 28 which is a heavier grade and perhaps this is the stuff to use for tents but which may be more expensive.
Personally, I'm happy with my Top Notch 9 and as the Ventile investigation is getting complicated, I'll leave it to the proponents of Ventile to say which is the stuff to use. :-)

John
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Re: Boat tents

Gerald Turner 2924
I don't know much about ventile, except that it's very tightly woven , to give its proofness, used for militia flight suits to keep pilots warm & dry from ww2 onwards, modern day use for surgical gowns and other high tech protective clothing.

I have sourced some cotton cloth,so will now test it to see if it will be proofed against getting wet, will proof a sample with Fabsil, plus untreated,  then  report back.
I think I will go cotton duck route, as it's my first sewing project, best to make a inexpensive cock up ,rather than a costly one!
And if a success ,might try Ventile should I need another tent
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Re: Boat tents

Paul Hadley 2898
In reply to this post by Gerald Turner 2924
Gerald,

My wife and myself have stitched old sails on her domestic sewing machine. We used waterproof sail thread from Point North.

The main problem we had was the (modern) shiny material slipping when folded thickly. The 'feed dog' teeth didn't grip shiny material well, which slipped when sewing thick seams. A bulky sail also makes feeding the material difficult, so you need to consider which type of machine to use.

We are not 100% sure, but I think professional sewing machines that sailmakers use have more 'feed dog' teeth. They also use large worktables that support bulky material at the same level as the machine. If you can rig up temporary tables either side of the machine that will make sewing easier.
I also recommend having an assistant that knows what they are doing!

Cliff and myself think the Sailmakers Apprentice is the bible for DIY work:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sailmakers-Apprentice-Guide-Self-reliant-Sailor/dp/0071376429/ref=sr_1_1_twi_pap_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1550055357&sr=8-1&keywords=sailmakers+apprentice

-Paul
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Re: Boat tents

Gerald Turner 2924
My machine is a Singer of 1962 vintage, got all metal gearing , and a sticky Zig -Zag gear selector, I probably will use a straight stitch anyway.
Professional machines have what is called a walking feed dog, i.e. means that it has a feeder behind the needle to guide material through as well as conventional feed dogs.

Consideration has been given to feeding material through,  one of the main reasons to choose cotton over stiffer synthetics, after a test run ,I shall see if I need a table behind the cabinet .

Whilst an instructress would be handy, I think I will have to wing it alone!
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Re: Boat tents

John Button 3320
In reply to this post by Gerald Turner 2924
You could consider the nylon material used for gazebos- and tents, I believe. Must be fairly cheap because of their low price. Flexible, lightweight, durable. I've used a section of an old gazebo for some years as a boat cover; the polytarp self-destruced after less than a year.

Don't use pvc-nylon; heavy, goes hard and stinks of plastic.  Leave it for curtainside lorries!

Good luck
John Button


From: Gerald Turner 2924 [via DCA Forum] <ml+[hidden email]>
Sent: 11 February 2019 19:46
To: John Button 3320
Subject: Boat tents
 
 Currently in throes of making a tent, but I am in a quandary on what to use, l like the feel of traditional cotton duck/ twill ,this would need treating with dope, not a problem with Fabsil.
I could use a more techie fabric ,like a coated PU , or acrylic ,but that doesn't have the soft feel or drapabilty of cotton, I want the ease of rolling the tent back to gain entry, something not able to do with a stiffer fabric.


If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.dinghycruising.org.uk/Boat-tents-tp1566.html
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Re: Boat tents

Elizabeth Baker
In reply to this post by Gerald Turner 2924
When making my boat tent I learnt to roll the fabric to get it under the mahine arch, and then guide it as necessary over backs of chairs. Awkward, but feasible. I too found that shiny material was difficult to sew with the machine, which is another reason why I chose cotton. Mw sewing machine is an electric Singer inherited from my mother, but I also have a hand-operated Jones which must be nearly 200 years old by now.
Liz
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: Boat tents

My machine is a Singer of 1962 vintage, got all metal gearing , and a sticky Zig -Zag gear selector, I probably will use a straight stitch anyway.
Professional machines have what is called a walking feed dog, i.e. means that it has a feeder behind the needle to guide material through as well as conventional feed dogs.

Consideration has been given to feeding material through,  one of the main reasons to choose cotton over stiffer synthetics, after a test run ,I shall see if I need a table behind the cabinet .

Whilst an instructress would be handy, I think I will have to wing it alone!


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Re: Boat tents

Paul Hadley 2898
In reply to this post by John Button 3320
Which material is best for a permanent year round boat tent?

My pocket cruiser is a Selway Fisher Lynx 14, a bit like the West Wight Potter. I rest the mast horizontally on a crutch and throw a tarp over it. Winds are a problem, eventually tarps leak through pin holes and cause condensation. Wooden built, she needs to stay dry or breathe.

A permanent boom tent would be really useful - I'd need a UV resistant material.

Paul
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Re: Boat tents

Alastair Law 2624
For a winter cover you would be hard pressed to do better than lorry
curtain material. I got some, second hand, some 30 years ago and my
dinghy cover, which is on year round, is just needing replacing. It
is the sunlight that kills it so if you can park it in the shade it
will last even longer.

My Paradox winter cover, from the same material, is still going
strong.



On 16 Feb 2019 at 2:26, Paul Hadley 2898 [via DCA Forum] wrote:

>
>
> Which material is best for a permanent year round boat tent?
>
> My pocket cruiser is a Selway Fisher Lynx 14, a bit like the West
> Wight Potter. I rest the mast horizontally on a crutch and throw a
> tarp over it. Winds are a problem, eventually tarps leak through pin
> holes and cause condensation. Wooden built, she needs to stay dry or
> breathe.
>
> A permanent boom tent would be really useful - I'd need a UV resistant
> material.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the
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> Q5ODc5MQ==

--
Sail when you can, row when you must, motor only
when you have to be at work in the morning.

Alastair Law
Yeovil, England.
<http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>


--
Sail when you can, row when you must, motor only
when you have to be at work in the morning.

Alastair Law
Yeovil, England.
<http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>
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Re: Boat tents

Paul Hadley 2898
Al,

Thanks. Heavy duty PVC is £8.33 + VAT per metre, but it might be quite difficult to sew. I've ordered a sample pack.

Paul