Mirror Miracle

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Mirror Miracle

Brian Chislett 2642
I have just acquired a Wooden Miracle  in good condition, off a friend, it's only going to be used for cruising/camping. Has anybody else owned one?. One report states they a safe family boat others an exciting racing dinghy. I don't like the second description as capsizes are something I wish to avoid if possible. I have to fit rowlocks plus an attachment for my feather weight Seagull Motor. I don't think the main can be reefed so have thought of carrying a standard "Mirror" main and jib for anything above Force one or maybe One and a half.  I am not a big sissy but  I am a bit oldish!. All sensible comments would be appreciated.
Thanks
Brian
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Re: Mirror Miracle

Elizabeth Baker
I'm not familiar with the Miracle, but if it has a square gooseneck fittting, and slots into the boom rather than being loose-footed, it might be possible to roller-reef the sail. If you do this you will need to roll a sponge or piece of cloth into the aft end of the sail to take-up the slack and stop the boom sagging. Alternatively you could have reef points added by a sailmaker.
Liz Baker
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2017 2:05 PM
Subject: Mirror Miracle

I have just acquired a Wooden Miracle  in good condition, off a friend, it's only going to be used for cruising/camping. Has anybody else owned one?. One report states they a safe family boat others an exciting racing dinghy. I don't like the second description as capsizes are something I wish to avoid if possible. I have to fit rowlocks plus an attachment for my feather weight Seagull Motor. I don't think the main can be reefed so have thought of carrying a standard "Mirror" main and jib for anything above Force one or maybe One and a half.  I am not a big sissy but  I am a bit oldish!. All sensible comments would be appreciated.
Thanks
Brian


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Re: Mirror Miracle

John Lidstone 1503
I haven't sailed one - only seen them. I think you are right to consider ways of reducing sail because the standard Miracle does carry quite a large area which is nice when you're sailing in your preferred light wind conditions.
From memory, Liz's suspicion is correct and they do have a loose foot on a simple tubular boom with a round goose neck. So you need a set of reef points put in right up under the bottom batten. This should enable you to quickly get the main down to about 50 sq ft when the wind pipes up.
You don't want a top sailmaker who is recovering costs for laser cutting machines and other techno. Try George Benney in Plymouth on 01752 606983 Tuesday to Thursday. He stitched up my cockpit tent.
Cheers
John
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Re: Mirror Miracle

Brian Chislett 2642
Thank you Mike and Liz for your advice.I have been a frustrated DCA member for some time having been unable attend Rallies as launching/recovering my Silhouette trailer sailer too difficult on my own. Now with the Miracle it's a case of
" have boat will travel". If  I can't sort the reefing out soon I shall look for some smaller Mirror sails.
Thanks again.   Brian
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Re: Mirror Miracle

Alastair Law 2624
Hi Brian,

Will we see you at Cobnor?

On 17 Aug 2017 at 7:26, Brian Chislett 2642 [via DCA Forum] wrote:

>
>
> Thank you Mike and Liz for your advice.I have been a frustrated DCA
> member for some time having been unable attend Rallies as
> launching/recovering my Silhouette trailer sailer too difficult on my
> own. Now with the Miracle it's a case of " have boat will travel". If
> I can't sort the reefing out soon I shall look for some smaller Mirror
> sails. Thanks again.   Brian
>

--
Sail when you can, row when you must, motor only
when you have to be at work in the morning.

Alastair Law
Yeovil, England.
<http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>


--
Sail when you can, row when you must, motor only
when you have to be at work in the morning.

Alastair Law
Yeovil, England.
<http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>
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Re: Mirror Miracle

Brian Chislett 2642
Thanks for mentioning Cobnor Alistair. I am away in Germany for most of August
so cannot attend. I have my eye on a few rallies in September and October,the
Miracle should be more than ready by then.
Cheers
Brian

> On 17 August 2017 at 17:44 "Alastair Law 2624 [via DCA Forum]"
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> Will we see you at Cobnor?
>
> On 17 Aug 2017 at 7:26, Brian Chislett 2642 [via DCA Forum] wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Thank you Mike and Liz for your advice.I have been a frustrated DCA
> > member for some time having been unable attend Rallies as
> > launching/recovering my Silhouette trailer sailer too difficult on my
> > own. Now with the Miracle it's a case of " have boat will travel". If
> > I can't sort the reefing out soon I shall look for some smaller Mirror
> > sails. Thanks again.   Brian
> >
>
> --
> Sail when you can, row when you must, motor only
> when you have to be at work in the morning.
>
> Alastair Law
> Yeovil, England.
> <http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
> --
> Sail when you can, row when you must, motor only
> when you have to be at work in the morning.
>
> Alastair Law
> Yeovil, England.
> <http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>
> _______________________________________________
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion
> below:
> http://forum.dinghycruising.org.uk/Mirror-Miracle-tp1008p1030.html
>
> To unsubscribe from Mirror Miracle, visit
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Re: Mirror Miracle

Michael Wilkinson 3461
We had a Miracle a few years ago.  Plywood hull, alloy mast and boom..  As a very inexperienced sailor, I found it a bit of a handful in a sudden gust - quite a tippy boat with a sail big enough for racing.  We also found the heavy tall mast and setting up the stays etc. a bit of a drag when trailing and setting up.  It was certainly an easier experience when the boat was left in the club compound with the mast and boom already in place.  If I had used it more, I believe I would have needed some means of reefing it.  I would have thought that the cockpit was a bit cluttered for camping but we never tried.
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Re: Mirror Miracle

Brian Chislett 2642

Thanks Michael,

your comments most appreciated. I have been toying with the idea of installing a Mirror rig instead of the Mirror "Miracle" set up and would welcome comments on this. Anybody in the Bristol/Somerset area have a mast and sails I could borrow just to see if it would fit etc.

I bought the boat in very good condition and at a reasonable price from a friend. I never even thought that the sail area might be a problem. I could have reef points fitted to the main, but one day may be caught out with too much sail. I appreciate that the boat would be slower with a smaller rig but I am not in a hurry, I just want to be as safe as possible. With a little time and effort I am sure a compromise can be reached even with the "accommodation".

Thanks again

Brian..


On 03 September 2017 at 21:29 "Michael Wilkinson 3461 [via DCA Forum]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

We had a Miracle a few years ago.  Plywood hull, alloy mast and boom..  As a very inexperienced sailor, I found it a bit of a handful in a sudden gust - quite a tippy boat with a sail big enough for racing.  We also found the heavy tall mast and setting up the stays etc. a bit of a drag when trailing and setting up.  It was certainly an easier experience when the boat was left in the club compound with the mast and boom already in place.  If I had used it more, I believe I would have needed some means of reefing it.  I would have thought that the cockpit was a bit cluttered for camping but we never tried.


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Re: Mirror Miracle

Michael Wilkinson 3461
This post was updated on .
I'm a far more experienced boater, water sports enthusiast and camper than I am a sailor.  I've crewed a reasonable amount but have a grand total of 6 trips helming my own dinghies, and a few other brief experiences helming borrowed boats.

However, avidly watching videos and reading about cruising, I am struck by how often cruising sailors with quite stable looking boats and smallish sails reef them.  The difference to me seems to be between sailing as a vigorous activity (hiking out, trapezing, capsizing, squeezing every ounce out of the boat) and sailing as a means of enjoying the outdoors and getting somewhere as comfortably and dry as "reasonably" possible.

Years ago, I used to crew on a Fireball and had enormous fun out on the trapeze, occasionally being catapulted and landing like a bemused starfish in the centre of the mainsail.  I remember one exhilarating Boxing Day race when we lost count of the capsizes and ended the day exhausted but with a fund of good stories.  I literally nearly drowned when the hook of my trapeze harness caught in the shroud and the boat turned turtle - then the helmsman climbed onto the hull, pushing me down.  How I laughed!

However, if you want to camp, or stop off at a pub or café, or explore an island, or anchor and read a book, or get out the binoculars and watch the seals (or the nudist beach) then I think you need a boat that will stay the right way up almost all the time without being a constant battle. Others more experienced than I am may disagree.

Whether the Mirror rig would fit the Miracle is beyond me.  One has a round/oval aluminium mast and a big Bermudan sail; the other has a short square section wooden mast and a gunter sail.    Would the fore/aft balance/trim be right?  I wonder whether there is an alternative suit of cruising sails available for the Miracle.  I know some "general purpose" boats come with optional sail sizes.

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Re: Mirror Miracle

John Lidstone 1503
In reply to this post by Brian Chislett 2642
Brian,

The Mirror 10 has a deck-stepped mast whereas the Miracle is keel stepped. So you would need to build some structure for the Mirror 10 mast to stand on or extend the mast.
What about cutting down the mast and sails of the Miracle by, say, 2 feet? The only problem I can see is that the Miracle sails are radial and I don't know how well they would set with the bottom cut off. - Anyone know?

Cheers

John
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Re: Mirror Miracle

Paul Hadley 2898
Rather than cut down the Miracle mast and sails which is a very hard job......

IMHO the better and easier solution is to add reefing at say 25% and 50%, or wherever the lowest batten is.


Paul
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Re: Mirror Miracle

John Lidstone 1503
I tend to agree. I have cut down an aluminium masted rig before but I admit it may not be something everyone would want to tackle.
None the less, Michael makes a good point about the height of the Miracle mast and general feeling of being over canvassed.
On balance of all this I (IMHO) may now favour Brian's original idea of a Mirror 10 rig. A strut between the keel step and the deck should not be too difficult to build. I don't think the balance will be affected too seriously but if the mast needs moving back a couple of inches, the woodworking shouldn't be too onerous. Or dispense with the jib to get the CoE further back.
But as Paul says, it would be a good idea to add a reefing point even on the 50 sq ft Mirror main.

John
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Re: Mirror Miracle

Brian Chislett 2642
Thanks all for the interesting comments. I hate to show  my ignorance but what does (IMHO) mean? It sounds important
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RE: Mirror Miracle

Graham Neil 2971

In My Humble Opinion, it means that the person who’s Opinion is being given thinks they are absolutely correct, so it may mean In My High Opinion, but then that’s just My Humble Opinion.

😉

But while I’m here, IMHO, Don’t go cutting down a perfectly good rig which was designed for the boat in question, you might need it some day. Do some simple draughting and ascertain where the fore and aft position of the mirror COE would lie in comparison with CLR of the miracle hull to see if there is any chance of it working. Another way to pull the COE aft is to add a mizzen. There is a very fine example of a de-powered Albacore (Yellow Peril)with a mizzen which comes to Cobnor.

Regards, Graham.

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: [hidden email]
Sent: 06 September 2017 17:49
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Mirror Miracle

 

Thanks all for the interesting comments. I hate to show  my ignorance but what does (IMHO) mean? It sounds importanthttp://n4.nabble.com/images/smiley/anim_confused.gif

If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:

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Re: Mirror Miracle

Roger Barnes 936
So that's what ihmo means...!

From Roger Barnes by mobile

On 6 Sep 2017, at 20:49, Graham Neil 2971 [via DCA Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

In My Humble Opinion, it means that the person who’s Opinion is being given thinks they are absolutely correct, so it may mean In My High Opinion, but then that’s just My Humble Opinion.

😉

But while I’m here, IMHO, Don’t go cutting down a perfectly good rig which was designed for the boat in question, you might need it some day. Do some simple draughting and ascertain where the fore and aft position of the mirror COE would lie in comparison with CLR of the miracle hull to see if there is any chance of it working. Another way to pull the COE aft is to add a mizzen. There is a very fine example of a de-powered Albacore (Yellow Peril)with a mizzen which comes to Cobnor.

Regards, Graham.

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: [hidden email]
Sent: 06 September 2017 17:49
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Mirror Miracle

 

Thanks all for the interesting comments. I hate to show  my ignorance but what does (IMHO) mean? It sounds importanthttp://n4.nabble.com/images/smiley/anim_confused.gif

If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:

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To start a new topic under Flotsam & Jetsam: Everything else dinghy cruising, email [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from DCA Forum, click here.
NAML

 




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Roger Barnes
President
Dinghy Cruising Association

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Re: Mirror Miracle

Keith Muscott 1516
Administrator
In reply to this post by Brian Chislett 2642
Brian

You really must pick a quiet day and sail the boat single-handed on waters you know with full sail up – an ounce of experience being worth a ton of advice. I think you will know within five minutes whether it is, in your opinion, suitable for cruising. Four people I know who bought Miracles because they were cheap and in good condition, actually thought, with experience, they were not. Don't start experimenting with the boat until you are familiar with – and accept – its basic character and suitablility!

If you go to the trouble of fitting a Mirror rig you will have a boat that probably will be more tippy than a Mirror and unsellable in that form. This is a 12-foot boat which weighs only 30lbs less than the 'least weight' of a standard Mirror – hull weight only, that is. The Mirror has 69 sq ft SA, the Miracle has 95. It was Jack Holt's first foray into the tongue and slot method of building plywood hulls, and – correct me if I'm wrong – it has a flat central bottom panel which facilitates the build but may contribute to tippiness, when combined with its other characteristics. JH could not resist drawing fast boats, first because he was a racer and second he was also a shrewd businessman – if they became popular with racing clubs many boats would be sold. Miracles are now seen as introductory club racers, despite all the flannel about 'safe stable boats for kids to learn in'. I owned (and loved) a Mirror 16 that was marketed by Holt / Bell Woodworking as a stable camping dinghy and its performance was hair-raising – a lot faster than a Wayfarer. And don't get me started on Bell's special 'Fast-rot' marine plywood ... The Miracle's good points? It is a lovely-looking boat.

There was a small cuddy-cruiser produced by Bell Woodworking around the same time as the Miracle using 'slot and glue', with the build facilitated by the same kind of central flat bottom panel, allied to light weight. Its instability became legendary (before it rapidly disappeared without trace), and reviews in the yachting press were very amusing as the testers attempted to give Bell a good press while at the same time they were unable to conceal the fact that it had scared the living daylights out of them in gusty conditions.

I think the tongue-in-cheek, laconic descrition I read of another Holt design, the Enterprise, fits the Miracle rather well:

'They are relatively unstable in comparison with other dinghies of similar performance; they have handling characteristics which would generally be associated with much faster designs.'

Why not return it to your friend and ask if he has something more congenial and sympatico to give you – perhaps a Rottweiler that's had an unfortunate troubled early life ...?

Yours aye,

Unhelpful of Anglesey
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Re: Mirror Miracle

Keith Muscott 1516
Administrator
An error in the above:

'This is a 12-foot boat which weighs only 30lbs less than the 'least weight' of a standard Mirror – hull weight only, that is.'

Should be: '... 30lbs MORE.'
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Re: Mirror Miracle

Gerald Turner 2924
But I have my doubts about sailing a Rottweiler,where would you mount the mast , and more to the point, how do you propose to insert the tiller and rudder.

Makes my eyes water,thinking of it!
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Re: Mirror Miracle

Keith Muscott 1516
Administrator
Very true!

(I don’t think you’d survive trying to insert the tiller and rudder.)

Being serious for once, there are quite a lot of Miracles around, and if they were really suitable for cruising / pottering we would see a lot more owned by DCA members, I think. I can only find two: I’ve just run my eye down the ‘boats’ column in the members’ list:

3388 Trevor Davies, Miracle, Dart & Heron

2635 Michael Knott, Miracle and Enterprise

Both have email addresses, if you wish to ask them about their boats, but I can’t post them on here. Send me an email and I’ll send you a pdf of the full members’ list by return.

Best wishes, whatever you decide to do.

Keith


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Re: Mirror Miracle

Brian Chislett 2642
Strewth! fellow sailors! I am now too scared to go anywhere near the boat. I have decided to operate same in very shallow waters without removing it from it's trailer. Ta ever so!!
Brian.
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