Rollocks

Next Topic
 
classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
27 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Rollocks

Brian Chislett 2642
Hello, does anybody know a formula for fitting rollocks,ie how far back from the thwart. Margaret Dye's book says 8cm after of the centerline of the thwart. This doesn't seem far enough back to me. I have a Miracle but this must be the same as a Mirror. thanks.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: Rollocks

Graham Neil 2971
This post was updated on .
Hi Brian, they should be 12-14ins aft of the thwart.

Sent from my Xperia by Sony smartphone

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Rollocks

Keith Muscott 1516
Administrator
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Brian Chislett 2642
The imaginary line across the beam of the boat that links the holes the crutches drop into should be 13 inches forward of the leading edge of the thwart.
This is what North America takes for granted and it was also Percy Blandford's recommendation. I find it very comfortable.
The crutches on the Charles Henry Ashley vary from stem to stern from about 12 inches to 8.5. which makes if arduous to row in unison with 15-foot oars weighing 22lbs, but is the result of the hull narrowing towards the ends and still having to accommodate rowers. A few inches more elbow room would make a lot of difference.
Keith


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Rollocks

Keith Muscott 1516
Administrator
This post was updated on .
The dimension should not vary much according to boat size – 13 inches is given on Blandford's plans for the 7ft 7 inch GREMLIN, if I can remember accurately that far back. 



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Rollocks

Roger Barnes 936
This post was updated on .
Yes the Royal Navy always called them crutches. Everyone else seems to call them rowlocks.

R

Roger Barnes
President
Dinghy Cruising Association

president@dinghycruising.org.uk
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Rollocks

Peter Brooks 3064
In reply to this post by Brian Chislett 2642
I think that the ideal solution is to set up a mockup and see what suits you. This need not be as luxurious as it sounds. You could clamp temporary rowlocks to your boat and try various positions. The variables are your own build and your preferred length of oar.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Rollocks

Gerald Turner 2924
In reply to this post by Roger Barnes 936
On my Dabber, I call them rowing gates,for that is what they are,proper gig rowing crutches, not much good for ordinary plastimo oars, but then again I use my carbon fibre blades if I will be rowing any distance.
For short use ,I slip in the crutches and use the wooden oars.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Rollocks

Keith Muscott 1516
Administrator
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Roger Barnes 936
We go back a long way, Brian; it was only a lighthearted email, even if based on accepted tradition. Call them what you want. But 13 inches is the comfortable dimension you are after. Margaret Dye must have made an honest mistake when she wrote 8 centimetres. That would make for very uncomfortable and inefficient rowing. It should have been picked up in the proof-reading.

It could be argued that a precise measurement in this case is not as desirable as, say, the right oar length for a given beam, simply because your backside will slide around on a wide thwart to find the right position, but no thwart should be wide enough to compensate for 8 cms!

There are other examples of contentious nautical vocabulary, the most notorious being the yard on a Gunter rig being called a gaff, with which I have a deal of sympathy, as unlike other yards it does have identical cheeks and differs very little from the gaff spar in use, except in the cordage and the angle at which it is set, which varies in gaff rig anyway – some examples are very high-peaked. I have consulted a dictionary for this one as a matter of interest, and it reads, 'GAFF: a spar to which the head of a fore-and-aft sail is bent' – which supports the use of the word for the Gunter yard, of course.
The topic is a serious one: will we at some point gradually relinquish the precise and arcane vocabulary that accompanies the practice of sailing and has come down to us through history? What would we lose if we did?
 
For instance, do you still call out 'Lee ho!' as a warning before going about? It is still in most dictionaries as a current usage, as well as being employed by the majority of us in practice – strangely perhaps, as it is a bit portentous when called out seated in a dinghy as opposed to standing on the deck of a square-rigger. I may be a bit of  a stickler normally, but in this case I just call out 'Tacking!'.
K



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Rollocks

Keith Muscott 1516
Administrator
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Gerald Turner 2924
That's an interesting one, Gerald, because I'm fascinated by the different  kinds of supports used in rowing, especially traditional rowing. Thole pins have enjoyed a resurgence of popularity, for instance, with the emergence of the St Ayles skiffs.
Most won't remember Mukti Mitchell now, or his sail and oar trip around Britain in his 15-footer, to advertise his low-carbon lifestyle, but when I was with him around the coast of Wales I remember him saying that he was in a gig-racing team at Clovelly, where he lived, and he found it to be a very stimulating noise when racing, the clack-clack! of the sweeps cracking forward in the rowlocks, or row beds, then backwards as the whole crew's weight was thrown on them. I suppose it simply depends on whatever rules are laid down by racing committees or national associations, what is used. In modern rowing, the terms 'gates' and 'oarlocks' are used very specifically, aren't they, as they lock the oars in, to prevent them jumping out.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Rollocks

Keith Muscott 1516
Administrator
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Gerald Turner 2924
CONTENTS DELETED
The author has deleted this message.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Rollocks

Stephen Davies 3471
In reply to this post by Peter Brooks 3064
Peter Brooks 3064 wrote
I think that the ideal solution is to set up a mockup and see what suits you. This need not be as luxurious as it sounds. You could clamp temporary rowlocks to your boat and try various positions. The variables are your own build and your preferred length of oar.
Not so easy with small Ply boats like the miracle, as we daren't venture in when she's not in the water, and when she's in the water we want to go sailing.

Stephen
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Rollocks

Keith Muscott 1516
Administrator
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Keith Muscott 1516
For some reason a cascade of repeated posts in my name has suddenly appeared, 36 hours after they were written, which somewhat blunts the original point. I'll carry out some housekeeping on this thread later, when I can grab a minute.

Housekeeping completed.

Keith


 
 
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Rollocks

Gerald Turner 2924
In reply to this post by Keith Muscott 1516
Keith ,
I guess it's all about efficiency, the modern rowing sweep has a squarish button and collar on round tubular carbon fibre loom, the same arrangement also for traditional wooden ones, well at least for Martonelli gates that I am used to, the reason is so that on the recovery you can feather the sweep in a stable position, also gives you good stable platform on catch & pull ,gates have a latch that closes and locks in the oar.

There is a later modification, that more modern sweeps use, a sort of cassette type arrangement, that is overlocked by a gate, no square buttons or collars, once clipped in the blade cannot move except in a rotational plane, more used for scullers I think.
I too like the click ,clack of the oars, I find it very soothing, very much into the Zen zietgieg of the moment, I close my eyes and listen & feel the movement of the boat, especially if we are racing, it helps me tune in to rythmn and speed.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Rollocks

Keith Muscott 1516
Administrator
It's also a big disappointment if a sailboat doesn't row well: if it doesn't, it's anything but soothing!

I'm making the wooden bases for crutches to be fitted to the Mirror 16. I hope it rows as well as its little brother... Not likely, as it's light at the stern and very responsive under sail, turning on a sixpence. Also high freeboard forward. But we'll see. Doesn't pay to pre-judge boat performance, under oar, sail or motor for that matter.

The last time we were in Sweden we had a pulling boat to play with on the island as well as dinghies. It was a light double-ender of a type used by the loggers to sort out floating rafts of timber coming down rivers or being taken inshore from the islands. Light GRP hull of about 14/15ft, no tanks, one thwart, mould taken from an old clinker original. It was a delight. I would have loved to bring it home. Bit big for cabin luggage though...

Keith




Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Rollocks

Gerald Turner 2924
Once you've done your seatials, you might have to decide if other mods will help, I don't know the underwater profile of your 16, has it a skeg,?  You likely would loathe to add one , may be dump some weight in the stern sheets and a bit of board?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Rollocks

Roger Barnes 936
I have added a keg to a little dinghy that tracked really badly under oars, and I have to say it was a great improvement. So now you have two conflicting views!

On 11 Dec 2018, at 17:00, Gerald Turner 2924 [via DCA Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Once you've done your seatials, you might have to decide if other mods will help, I don't know the underwater profile of your 16, has it a skeg,?  You likely would loathe to add one , may be dump some weight in the stern sheets and a bit of board?


If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.dinghycruising.org.uk/Rollocks-tp1495p1510.html
To start a new topic under FAQs & Forum Issues, [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from DCA Forum, click here.
NAML

Roger Barnes
President
Dinghy Cruising Association

president@dinghycruising.org.uk
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Rollocks

Gerald Turner 2924
In reply to this post by Gerald Turner 2924
Incidentally, its common fashion in my small knit group of sailing friends to still call 'ready about ' & ' Lee - ho' ,one even calls ' helm  a lee', as well as 'standby to  gybe', fairly important to let the rest of your crew know your intentions  in the boat.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Rollocks

Keith Muscott 1516
Administrator
I'd be a liar if I said it never escapes my lips, Gerald, but I think that it is only an unconscious spur-of-the-moment homage to Captain Flint, Long John Silver, Hornblower, Calico Jack, Blackbeard, Jack Aubrey, Stephen Maturin, FitzRoy, Melville, Ahab, Nelson, et al. 

Called out in unguarded moments of sentimental weakness.

And I've certainly used 'The helm's a-lee!' this year, and pretended it was ironical.

Despite what you say, nothing is clearer than simply, 'Tacking!' and 'Gybing!' so I think they convey your intentions best, however you may protest. 

No, when all is said and done we're an archaic bunch of old retrogrades fondly evoking former times... A bit like Fitzgerald's famous last sentence:

'So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past...'

...Even though that was a different kind of book...




Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Rollocks

Keith Muscott 1516
Administrator
In reply to this post by Roger Barnes 936
Nothing wrong with skegs, except that they are difficult to resist putting on any hull you build or refurbish, whether they are needed or not. Too tempting by half. 

They are on the little Mirror 10, which does row well. In fact the original Mirror 10 kit contained a keg with a cut-out so you could lift the boat with it when it was upside down, as you will know! Perhaps they still do. God knows what that does to the water flow.

You answered your own question when you said, 'Would you be loath to add one'. The rudder blade is quite small on the Mirror 16, which is an indication that it is a well-balanced hull that rarely gets caught in stays. I'd be loath to add one in case I interfered with the water flow before it reaches the rudder blade and leaves the hull, especially on a planing hull. 

If it does wander about under oars, keeping the rudder down and lashing the helm fore and aft would be better than a skeg, probably, as the blade is too small to cause any great amount of drag. Though it would have to be cocked up to keep it off the bottom. Putting weight in the sternsheets would submerge the transom slightly and so would definitely cause drag. For this reason I've promised myself never to hang an outboard on it. Hence the addition of oars. I have a pair of ten-foot oars which have never been used and so are are eager to be shipped...

Probably it will track straight and true anyway and I'm just anticipating problems.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Rollocks

David Bewick 3135
In reply to this post by Roger Barnes 936
Sounds like a great idea to add a keg to a dinghy - very festive!
12