Safety Lanyard

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Safety Lanyard

John Lidstone 1503
Does anyone else with a heavy boat tie themselves on in rough weather?
When I'm alone, along the coast and the waves get to a point where I feel in danger of losing my seating, I clip on my safety lanyard. It is a standard yachting one although it is the longest available at 2m. This allows me to move around the boat and reach everything necessary. It is just short enough to stop me falling off the sides of the trampolines or over the stern (its a trimaran).
My conundrum is that in the very unlikely event of a capsize, I might be trapped unable to release the standard safety hook which requires two actions to undo. I am considering fitting a high strength snap hook which can release under load in hurry but the snap hook cord might also be inadvertently released if I were to slide across the deck/trampoline.
Any thoughts - anyone?

John
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Re: Safety Lanyard

Gerald Turner 2924
Carry a sharp knife attached to your bouyancy aid, seeing as your bouncing around on a tri ,you might get entangled, if you cut yourself away you can then attempt self rescue.
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Re: Safety Lanyard

John Lidstone 1503
Thanks Gerald.
Yes, I suppose so. I'm sure James Bond could do it. I've thought that with one breath and in the heat of the moment I might manage one thing which would need to be successful immediately. I guess I could carry a knife as well. Have you ever done it?
John
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Re: Safety Lanyard

Alastair Law 2624
In reply to this post by John Lidstone 1503
On 19 Feb 2018 at 6:05, John Lidstone 1503 [via DCA Forum] wrote:

>
>
> Does anyone else with a heavy boat tie themselves on in rough weather?

I use a harness when going on deck in dodgy conditions.

--
Sail when you can, row when you must, motor only
when you have to be at work in the morning.

Alastair Law
Yeovil, England.
<http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>


--
Sail when you can, row when you must, motor only
when you have to be at work in the morning.

Alastair Law
Yeovil, England.
<http://www.little.jim.freeuk.com>
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Re: Safety Lanyard

Roger Barnes 936
In reply to this post by John Lidstone 1503
I have never liked those standard lanyard safety hooks. I tend to use a standard snap shackle and I am careful what I attach it to.



On 19 Feb 2018, at 13:05, John Lidstone 1503 [via DCA Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Does anyone else with a heavy boat tie themselves on in rough weather?
When I'm alone, along the coast and the waves get to a point where I feel in danger of losing my seating, I clip on my safety lanyard. It is a standard yachting one although it is the longest available at 2m. This allows me to move around the boat and reach everything necessary. It is just short enough to stop me falling off the sides of the trampolines or over the stern (its a trimaran).
My conundrum is that in the very unlikely event of a capsize, I might be trapped unable to release the standard safety hook which requires two actions to undo. I am considering fitting a high strength snap hook which can release under load in hurry but the snap hook cord might also be inadvertently released if I were to slide across the deck/trampoline.
Any thoughts - anyone?

John


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Roger Barnes
President
Dinghy Cruising Association

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Re: Safety Lanyard

John Lidstone 1503

Ah, OK. Leaving aside the boat-end connection (which presumably hooks to a reinforced point that allows you an adequate radius of freedom).

Do you have a snap shackle at your end of the lanyard?

What type of cord/knob/loop/knot do you tie to the pull-ring?

Have you considered if it might foul on something and inadvertently release at the wrong time?




From: Roger Barnes 936 [via DCA Forum] <ml+[hidden email]>
Sent: 19 February 2018 20:12
To: John Lidstone 1503
Subject: Re: Safety Lanyard
 
I have never liked those standard lanyard safety hooks. I tend to use a standard snap shackle and I am careful what I attach it to.


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Re: Safety Lanyard

Gerald Turner 2924
In reply to this post by John Lidstone 1503
No, I can't say I have.
But I have found a safety knife usefull sometimes.
Those safety shackles can come undone given the right angles ,when twisted around the strong point, if the gate of the shackle gets pushed against the hoop of the strong point, it's all to easy for it to self release, for that matter Roger's suggested snap shackles seem a lot safer.
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Re: Safety Lanyard

Steve Parke 2986
In reply to this post by John Lidstone 1503
Hi John
depending on the wave and weather conditions I sometimes clip myself onto a lanyard when in Arwen, says the man who rarely sails in anything above a force four!! I once got caught at Rame head in the races and was glad I had it on - poor pilotage on my part. I carry a sharp folding sailing knife in my PDF.  I have one of the 2m length yacht harnesses with a double action release clip at my end of it, if you know the type I mean. I can clip it into a deck loop attached to the my exposed cockpit king plank (I think its called that).  I also have another sailing harness a neighbour gave me which comprises two x 2m lengths with safety snap hooks on each end which I can use to move from one end of boat to other, although I have added another deck eye pad midway along Arwen as well. I don't know how I feel about the clips without the safety mechanism in terms of whether I trust them not to open if they caught against something. I am thinking of replacing them with some climbing carabineers I have  but then they need to be screwed up and unscrewed and what if they tightened up and i couldn't release them when I needed to? A conundrum.

I only tend to clip in if the waves are lumpy and I have to move around the boat for some reason or I have to go forward to the deck area.
Steve
Arwen's Meanderings
www.arwensmeanderings.blogspot.com
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Re: Safety Lanyard

John Lidstone 1503
Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far.
I think it depends if the lanyard is short enough to stop you falling out of the boat or if it's long enough to let you swim beside the capsized boat. If you are floating around next to your monohull then you have more time to get the knife out and cut yourself free or indeed unclip the dreaded double action hook.
My aim to not fall off the boat so I am secured to the top side of the trimaran. If in extremis it should turn over (they don't lay on their side) I would be secured underneath it!
Please don't tell me "ah well, you should get a monohull"! - we'll get off the point.
Ideally, someone would say "I've got a snap shackle on my harness (not the boat end) and I've skidded around on my belly a few times without it coming undone" but I guess that's not going to happen. Maybe those people all fell off their boat and were lost forever!
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Re: Safety Lanyard

Roger Barnes 936
In reply to this post by John Lidstone 1503
John

To be clear, I don't use a safety line on the dinghy. Only when I am on bigger yachts.

My harness has ordinary asymmetric snap shackles on it. I never snap on to side deck jackstays, because they are silly, (they don't stop you falling over the side - which is surely the point). Instead I pass the line through something like a cabin-top grab rail and back to my harness, so both ends of the strap are attached to me. This is how I was taught to harness myself to a boat. When working at the mast I tend to take the line round the mast. I always make sure that the strap is short enough that I cannot physically fall over the side, but I will be kept on deck.

Roger



On 19 Feb 2018, at 21:58, John Lidstone 1503 [via DCA Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ah, OK. Leaving aside the boat-end connection (which presumably hooks to a reinforced point that allows you an adequate radius of freedom).
Do you have a snap shackle at your end of the lanyard?
What type of cord/knob/loop/knot do you tie to the pull-ring?
Have you considered if it might foul on something and inadvertently release at the wrong time?




From: Roger Barnes 936 [via DCA Forum] <ml+<a href="x-msg://69/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=1219&amp;i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external" class="">[hidden email]>
Sent: 19 February 2018 20:12
To: John Lidstone 1503
Subject: Re: Safety Lanyard
 
I have never liked those standard lanyard safety hooks. I tend to use a standard snap shackle and I am careful what I attach it to.





If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.dinghycruising.org.uk/Safety-Lanyard-tp1214p1219.html
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To unsubscribe from DCA Forum, click here.
NAML

Roger Barnes
President
Dinghy Cruising Association

president@dinghycruising.org.uk
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Re: Safety Lanyard

John Lidstone 1503
I see. Thanks, Roger. Totally agree about the position of yacht jackstays.
Rightly or wrongly I've decided to go with the snap shackle and I've hopefully managed to put a photo of it here. I know I'll be more likely to wear it now. Bearing in mind the comments, I may get a knife attached for a quick draw as well.

Snap Shackle Quick Release

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Re: Safety Lanyard

Jude Miller 3515
I use a similar safety lanyard as the image posted by John.  I have two eye bolts as attachment points near my masts.  My fear is my #SeaPearl21 sailing away from me.  I recently read a post of this happening to a person sailing in the Texas200.  It was calm weather and he went aground. He got out of his dinghy to push it into deeper water. He lost his footing and fell.  The dinghy was now free since he had removed his weight. Fortunately his dinghy sailed for only 600 yards and went aground again. Another participant seeing what had happened secured his dinghy and towed it back to him.  I can't imagine what it must have been like to see your dingy sail away while standing in knee deep water a couple of miles from shore. Stuff happens - Plan for the worst and act like it is overtaking you!




Best Regards,

Jude Miller

"S/V BushcraftCanoeist"
1986 Sea Pearl 21 LBHull #109

DCA - Dinghy Cruising Association DCA # 3515
TSCA - Traditional Small Craft Association TSCA #4545
OCSG - Open Canoe Sailing Group - OC #265
ACA - American Canoe Association - Lifetime # 10773564
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Re: Safety Lanyard

Michael Wilkinson 3461
If I were tied on to either of my boats, I would have a rescue knife strapped to my leg (or arm) or secured to my buoyancy aid in some way.  I have a rescue knife because my other boat is an inflatable and it is not unknown to foul the prop with weed, or to pick up a loose bit of line or net that needs to be cut off.  A rescue knife has a blunt tip so you can't stab yourself (or in my case, the inflatable tube) when the boat is bumping up or down.  Mine has one short serrated edge for cutting thick lines, and a "hook" that can be used for cutting thin lines, monofilament, etc.

As for the shackles, what climbers do is either use a shackle with a double mechanism (turn and push) or — easier but bulkier — two ordinary shackles in opposite directions.  Thus, if the line somehow gets tight across the shackle in such a way as to open one of the gates, it cannot also open the other.
Cornish Cormorant S/N 27.  Living between Grantham and Newark.  Member of Wanlip SC, Leics.
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Re: Safety Lanyard

Frank Raisin 2892
In reply to this post by John Lidstone 1503
There is a thread on the woodenboat forum about tethers and I was surprised that all but one expert or experienced persons used them and recommended them.

 they used tethers that were long enough to not trap you underneath in a capsize .

if your boat could drag you through the water at more than two and a half knots you should use a tether that doesn't allow you to fall over the side or you will drown in seconds according to experiments run by the RNLI or somebody.

Regards,
Frank
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Re: Safety Lanyard

David Platten 2616
Just been reading through the older posts in this thread. The chance of spring gate snaphooks opening accidentally is obviously an issue. I've just discovered some s/s snaphooks with outward opening gates, that lock with a spring loaded sliding sleeve. Take a look at www.gsproducts.co.uk Rgards, David.
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Re: Safety Lanyard

David Platten 2616
In reply to this post by Frank Raisin 2892
Also, www.securefixdirect.com.  David
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Re: Safety Lanyard

Frank Raisin 2892
In reply to this post by David Platten 2616
Yeah I suppose there's all sorts of proper Solutions - but I remember the time when half drunk on half a bottle of scotch (hey, I was out there to let my cares Blow Away In The Wind) .
 and the boat was going just lovely - moderate conditions and all - but I got concerned that I might be silly enough to fall in the drink and I didn't want the boat to lose me - so I did what they did in Swallows and Amazons and tied the end of the mainsheet around my middle .
I felt ok then.
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Re: Safety Lanyard

DavidSumner2098
In reply to this post by John Lidstone 1503
Hi John
I use a 5m line which should be long enough in the event of a capsize. I take it around the thwart and it has a snap hook on to my lifejacket ring. At one time it also had a fitting on it to stop the outboard.
The hooks are just ordinary spring hooks because I need easy release. But there are many ways a hook can undo itself, as I found when involved professionally with safety belts for pole climbing. I also have a safety knife on the lifejacket, which is the 100N foam type, as it has no moving parts and does not have to be re-armed at sea.
Good sailing.
david
Curlew
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Re: Safety Lanyard

John Lidstone 1503
Hello David,
Long time no see. I thought I might see you at Connor but ....
Good point about re-arming inflatable life jackets on the go.
Yes spring hooks can get "capsized" and accidentally unhook. I am hoping that snapshackles like the one I photo'd above are better?
John
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Re: Safety Lanyard

DavidSumner2098
Hi john
Sorry I did not see you on the water.
I have a stainless snap shackle for my jib sheet and it has stayed attached always, but a bronze one would come undone sometimes, and I think they are famous for this. I think the spring hook on my 5m safety line could be undone one handed if I was dragged under. It is a bit different to a yacht where one is routinely reliant on the hook for safety of life.
I was looking for dolphins at the bow of Provident coming back from Sark when a big wave came and knocked me right over and inflated my lifejacket, to everyone's amusement. I was not clipped on so was a bit lucky there.
I am not impressed by the jackyards I have seen on sailing vessels for attaching harnesses. The shock loads could be enormous and are magnified by the geometry.
Good sailing
David
Curlew